David Graeber on Debts, Money, Markets and Occupy Wall Street (2/2)

skits is that eat sort of the we’ve gotten the functional equivalent
of when people described it you know fiat money today when they say like you
know all the uh… the fed is doing is
creating fiat money and it’s not that the meat is in that essentially the same
thing here is that even yes symbaloo critic happpy i don’t really care credit
system money trail you because it carefully compliant mukesh with
people like uh… gold really use mock somehow arm and back you know modern governments are just
like him to stop it and i commend you critical pearl city basically arm it’s it that goes back to that whole
idea that you have government you have markets a release african
governments interfere now what’s really happening is that it’s
it money is credit need somebody to
regulate the system and if in fact that happened throughout history the really fascinating kicks to the
criticism has obtained unity cupcake for about a thousand years and it disappears related to that of
course cash comes back after fourteen ninety two the others
huge influx of gold and silver before start fabricating shouldn’t be in
touch with each other weeks really is korean of everyday transactions you know it’s infamous moral to suddenly not to get back to it you filled out uh… bound to fail it period ends in nineteen seventy one when nixon goes off
the gold standard so we’ll start entering back into a
period of virtual which we thought it might make the promise of tonight oh you
and people are still continued antiquated term treasury notes yet mark money that’s created by the
government it’s not real money irregular real money in the pit but in fact the oracle public money was
virtualbox it’s not any more real than anything
else but you need some kind of mechanism to
make sure it doesn’t go crazy that’s true and that’s the difference really haven’t
figured attitude back up and did you say that were once we move
into that sort of uh… once we move into periods of virtual credit money that generally there are protections for
debtors um… because otherwise uh… too much
money would be lent out people get too far in debt they would be default and
then they end up having literally to sell themselves off as slaves and you go
on to say that uh… the the uh… the ancient uh… uh… greeks would probably perceived
americans today in some ways to be slaves in that they have reached that
that point where they’re possibly categorically um… who had uh… but how is it but what is gone so ron in
our economies in this country and when we look at your upload the i_m_f_ is
said you know uh… the people of the landing this money essentially the other
day they’re not gonna have to take a haircut on these uh… they’re not gonna
have to suffer at all in the in the course of surveyed this issue new job bailout they did not have to
take a haircut we’ve seen in this country that um… bankruptcy has become
less and less of an option from a legislative perspective for your average
citizen uh… it’s not an option at all if you talk about student debt uh…
what has gone so ron well meyer without a simple concept wouldn’t were entering this newt into what money employment theater of of
monetary history uh… within about a book spong waiting periods where you have berkelman
he walks money the credits riley gets recognized because a promise the problem obviously heart what’s to
stop you for generating about internet late welcome controlling promises you
made and even more importantly what’s to stop
people from falling apart that traps uh… whereby the bulk of the population of
effectively inflated took one or two percent direction omp this is the great social make that
antiquity people fall so it’s a double had to shoulder to shoulder at all to
sell off everything they had haven’t redemption all this talk about the slaves working for other people antoinette exactly what’s happening
right now i think that that’s going to tell you know if they are aristotle
we’re here today if you find the distinction between
someone so deep in debt that percy shelley himself to work for
somebody else someone said he’d been deepa deputy director himself to work
for them but he also spent a week or statistics in the past but the region why this is happening seems to me it’s because in everybody period uh… virtual money immediately created some huge institution often even large group
of government to protect others aren’t we great moral authority so i would like to do belief system and
agent argued a a in the campaign director
divine came to the dispute displayed sleeping in tokyo holdouts are cancelled
and experts work for freedom the nanny in language arts or to death camps watching all everybody’s off the hook startup recess tom in the middle ages they’d related to better protect ok deputy editor legal
and lending money to be interested to legal and that was enforced not again not so
much by states but bike religious institutions uh… perks lol sharia law whatever it might have been a
arm in every case so or some kind of
protection pretenders to make sure that whole thing didn’t go crazy everybody
can democratic becoming enslaved there on the front end or the patent either late usually to limit the amount
so that people can borrower can be charged in terms of interest or we have
this sort of like uh… uh… release valve that is a institutionalize precisely uh… your presumably there’s
other things you can think of it sort of really putting our minds to it they have to be some now what we do this time around nineteen
seventy one nixon goes off the gold standard money becomes a speak little
credit instruments quickly yuki plastic to hurt everybody’s
doing cutting taxes rpm see this credit economy where instead of
the sort social wealth restricted list of the fifties and sixties inc arm everybody close to borrow money get
mortgages sup or oh one k_ to make a credible say the world’s poor art credit everywhere object identification of capital which used to be that investment money was
mostly actually at producing more exchange rate mechanism now it’s all speculation on money itself the vast majority of of money in the
world inland you related to anything anybody that we do is speculation on top art other money uh… okay if you have all that happened
wants but what a great deal instead of creating something to protect
others may create the i_m_f_ basically their international
enforcement mechanism to take no one has ever before on payments are attached stat moral standard an educator there martin work of the bankruptcy laws make
that much more difficult their arm j eliminated use rewards entirely used
to be there some limits on what the plan now there’s
basically no limits you have a slump payday loan people work character equivalent of four hundred
percent a year objectives let’s go back to the mafia to get for
most days of history essentially aren’t they create the
constituent held at the same thing now authorities here to avert
institutions likely to have the victim it pretty bad quarter makings they’re protecting creditors against
others as a result of the social crisis across the world it’s probably
non-volatile and at group about it but we do know
what a form of debt crisis or about her pretty much since nineteen seventy five
or seventy eight threat a crisis of the families whose never
really got away at first piece of the top of the third world income and then interests development coming
back or not amin inside the the the bailing out uh… ranks as a person in in the mechanism
which they did it i mean at the end of the day if you bought up all those
mortgages and basically just any everybody’s on par on paying off your
principal and that money filter back up to the banks it probably would have had
not only the same effect in terms of maintains ardent citibank’s it would
probably made it uh… far more stable but instead they were told that it will
be people who have money to expand the economy will be moving along the
government to court do talk about money and you would have gotten with a lower
deficit would have been telling corey at every
level but instead they basically again went to
the lender they protect the crowded as opposed to the doctor and that’s for political power uh… but it’s made possible by
discreetly moral desk intellectual wire wrote the book effective yes moral power of what you have to take
her that sonya omp at because she was how could you possibly suggest that people still borrow money
in a flood of off-the-cuff it’s immoral you know what that would increase the
moral behavior of course barriers in two thousand seven
two thousand eight what we’ve discovered was but he doesn’t have to pay their debts
at all all that little cracks romp now money at it in fact a promising to
my alien unlike any other promises can be renegotiated if circumstances change if you’re rich and powerful and and that has been the case throughout world history either relief aid which people can be
incredibly generous understanding forgetting when dealing with each other
it’s just when you go to monica suddenly got becomes a sacred obligation and that leads us uh… too new actions we’ve seen uh… all across
the world over this past year um… and uh… uh… the ones that we’re seeing today
on the west coast um… and in a you’ve been with us for a long time and i wanna
hold you too much longer and i appreciate it but i just um… when
uh… you very early on it’s been reported that when
the early meetings are happening shortly after had busters uh… denounced v occupation in august you were down and
in new york and your tenure and in some ways instigating the very first general
assembly’s hello ari mister yeltsin actually i think that’s
been reported uh… by bloomberg at least um… and um… you will lead to
that on majority dot f_m_ but i’m curious as to lucien of this one uh… how it’s gone
since that time that you were in gauging in those organizing activities yellow and red meat perspire of them it was a very interesting convergence of
people the people involved in the anti cox um… movement here in new york which was kind
of a top heavy repeaters what we call recorder medications like on in sort of people that the other hand
servant of that week uh… why without my role is actually i was
really doesn’t have a clear to the right time in a couple of my friends or one to
one of these meetings which was who runs a rally in a marc summers of
leadership structure warehouses the general assembly if he’s
going to decrease mccurdy busters ignoring or avoiding work and nobody came intruded into a real democratic meeting and that was the
start of epic you’ve got together can propose any what we have in america as a fighter
corruption like dressed up for democracy real democracy would be like so well that was boom idea dipping into welcome i’m new york isn’t really rough
placed organ of a sudden there’s forty thousand police to protect dirty
politics uh… people think that like naked in new york city or an independent
country you’d have one of the workers parties in the world just in the cops silk so it’s really rocks and always really worry that the tiny
leavitt these guys we just get clobbered instantly and no one would ever know
missouri literally warner young people very antithetical to the political
experience to answer redoing it for two years but you know soap so to be perfectly
honest the idea of that this was going to spread instantly across our country
in the world i mean obviously only stream but like
you want to book are we didn’t really expect that so children first thing that happened there was we seem to seize the moment that we did that whereby everybody’s waiting for
something to happen annida at that moment of the financial whereever we commit to get people to
read correctly a legitimate peaks idea seeking public space because we are
in a public approval carspace you’ll have to ask permission at complaint comes back letting people
were looking for and pet supply it looks pretty sweet
pretty much every community across the united states so that was very excited now of course the government struck back
in struck back in the swing which reveals it really is a lot of corporate or
guardian strategies work this is extremely explicitly non-violent
newburgh even been property destruction which is important than mine because had people organized
this were a ruckus alligator cancer people into expected ctc i thought that the idea is to demonstrate to people like if you
challenge authority doesn’t matter how that you are doesn’t matter how
non-violent market will respond move i want to go out of that what they are are very quickly and i can’t believe
you’re forced to continue our work speaker might have the ostrich about not
only calcium so i think there at the moment what were
out of the moment of telling americans what they develop our country there
earlier well david graver thank you so much for
joining us off their of yet the first five thousand years apologists uh… treating at the university of london uh… thanks again for taking the time
of this really appreciated the the fascinating political and uh… looking forward to reading it a second
time it won’t yahoo co and literati thank you
for joining us

9 comments on “David Graeber on Debts, Money, Markets and Occupy Wall Street (2/2)”

  1. Rudy Goss says:

    It is moral for the Fed to serve the banks but immoral for the Consumer Protection Agency to serve the consumer. This country is fucked.

  2. 00maharum00ma says:


    Gold is no more real or tangible than paper. It's just that for some strange reason people seem to think it has more intrinsic worth. If a currency's value is based in gold, then what is gold's value based in?

  3. 00maharum00ma says:


    People accept pieces of paper in return for goods and services all the time, so by definition they aren't worthless. However there's no way you could walk into a groccery store with dubloons and expect to buy anything. Scarcity doesn't equal value.

  4. Teresa Fawkes says:

    I've listened to both of these interviews twice and will listen again. Very informative and thought provoking.

    FF Xavier Onassis, EMT-P
    Ambassador from Occupied Redtruckistan

  5. TreachMarkets says:

    He missed the most important part of fiat money: since money is debt, the only way that money can be created for use in our economy is for us to go into debt to the monopoly money cartel.

  6. Belloran24 says:

    This interview has been fascinating. I'm going to get this book.

  7. Diego Linde says:

    Since Wizard of Oz was mentioned, a mention and acknowledgement of Bill Still's award-winning documentary "The Secret of Oz" is deserved.

  8. Evan Slizofski says:

    what these two fail to mention is the terms productivity and risk.

  9. Justin Doud says:

    I feel the need to comment just due to the view count this has lol. Keep doing these Sam. I appreciate the education.

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