Solution to Student Debt is to Get the Banks Out of the Education Business

PAUL JAY: Welcome to The Real News Network.
I’m Paul Jay in Baltimore. A recent New York Times editorial about the
student debt says this: “The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently
released a study showing just why many young people are being strangled by student loans.
It found that 43 percent of 25-year-olds had student debt in 2012, an increase from 27
percent in 2004.” Further on in the editorial, they say: “According to the new study, student debt
almost tripled between 2004 and 2012, and is approaching $1 trillion, while the percentage
of borrowers who were more than 90 days delinquent had risen to 17 percent, from 10 percent in
2004. In addition, student loan debt was the only kind of household debt that continued
to rise through the Great Recession, and it is now the second largest after mortgage debt.” Further on: “The Federal Reserve study estimates that
nearly 18 percent of borrowers now have student loan debts of $25,000 to $50,000, and nearly
4 percent have balances greater than $100,000.” Now joining us to talk about the underlying
causes of the student debt, possible solutions to it, is Michael Hudson. He was a Wall Street
financial analyst and is now a distinguished research professor of economics at the University
of Missouri-Kansas City. His recent books are The Bubble and Beyond and Finance Capitalism
and Its Discontents. Thanks for joining us, Michael. MICHAEL HUDSON: Thank you, Paul. JAY: So let’s get into the sort of underlying
systemic reasons why there was so much student debt, and then let’s talk about what could
be done about it. HUDSON: Well, one reason there’s so much student
debt is the whole educational system has been transformed completely in the last generation.
When I went to school at the University of Chicago, it cost about $500 a semester for
me to go there in the 1950s. Now it’s about $25,000 a semester. JAY: Twenty-five thousand’s a deal compared
to some schools. HUDSON: To some schools. And what it means
now is that people had thought that getting a higher education was going to be the way
into the middle class. But now it’s become a larger burden on them than the mortgage
debt, and especially now that the lower fifth of Americans can’t get mortgage debts. Student
loans can absorb 25 or 30 percent of their income, as much as housing used to do. So the problem is that education has been
financialized. Just like roads are being turned into toll roads and sold off to Wall Street
firms, you’ve had the school system basically become an appendage of the commercial banking
system. And it’s interesting that when The New York
Times or The Wall Street Journal talk about student debt, they talk about it from two
perspectives. One, how can we politicians save the banks from losing money on the debt?
By tightening the screws on the debtors. We’ve got to make these deadbeats pay. And The Wall
Street Journal today said, well, student loans are just another example of Obama’s socialism.
Well, it’s not socialism when you don’t have the state running the education. But when you have a privatized education department
school running it and when you’ve had a phenomenon of last ten years of–first of all, you’ve
had much less public support of education, less revenue sharing from the government,
less state support. And at the same time, you’ve had an increasing financialization
of the organization of the schools. For instance, the presidents of the universities,
their cronies, their middle management, their sub middle management, and their top middle
management with no-show jobs have proliferated. And how do they pay the top administrators?
People like the new Treasury secretary, Lew, was at NYU, and there was a big to-do. This week at New York University there was
a no-confidence vote in the president of the university, because they say, you turned a
school into an adjunct of the bank. In New York City, the second- and third-largest real
estate owners were Columbia University and New York University. So in essence, New York
University was a real estate company that got tax exemption on its holdings in exchange
for holding classes in some of its universities. When New York University bought a spaghetti
company, they said, that’s part of the educational process; we want tax exemption on that. It
went to court. They weren’t allowed to pull that trick. But basically now that they have raised the
tuition so sharply that the results of the tuition have not gone to pay for higher professors.
They have been replacing full-time tenured professors with part-time professors. The
president of New York University last week said, we’re in business to make money, basically,
and if we can save money by hiring part-time professors at one-tenth the rate of tenured
professors, we’re going to do it. And let me tell you, nobody has job security at New
York University. So you’re having the tuition go up. And the question is: how are they going to
make the students pay for it? Well, in 2005 they rewrote the bankruptcy law so that the
government would guarantee student loans, so they would create this vast, $1 trillion
market for the banks in making student loan, a market bigger than the banks’ credit card.
And at the same time, the Republicans in Congress–or the Democrats got the Republicans to pressure
them to say, well, if the public’s guaranteeing it, we have to make sure that the students
who borrow cannot wipe out this loan by bankruptcy. In America, normally in every country, if
you go into debt, you’re allowed to wipe out your loan when you go bankrupt and you can’t
pay. Well, students are graduating now with a $200,000, $300,000 worth of student loan
debt. They are unable to get jobs. They’re living with their parents. They cannot afford
to marry and form new households. JAY: In fact, there was a recent study that
the majority of new jobs won’t even require a high school diploma, never mind a university
education. HUDSON: That’s right. But all the same, getting
a university education is the entry price to the middle class. But instead of being
an entry price to the middle class, it’s the road to debt peonage. JAY: Okay. So if you look at the New York
Times editorial I was quoting, when it comes to solutions, it’s a public-private partnership
for refinancing. It’s not about breaking the chains between students and banks. HUDSON: That’s right. And the result is what
they’ve done is raise the cost of living tremendously. Basically, 100 years ago everybody thought
of education as being a public service, much like roads and public utilities. And the idea
was to keep down the price of public services so that you lower the cost of living. And
that lowers the cost of business, because companies don’t have to pay new recruits,
new labor, so much that they have to pay for these services. The idea was to make the economy
more competitive. When people are talking about de-industrialization
of America and you realize what an engineer, a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer has to pay to
get through school, you realize why American labor is being priced out of the market. So
much of the income of–25 percent to 30 percent of the income goes to pay the student loan
debt, 40 percent–43 percent now under government guarantees just for mortgage debt. Then already
you’re dealing with about 70 percent of income before you begin to pay the other 15 percent
in wage withholding for Social Security and Medicare. When people ask, why is the economy
slowing down so much, why are people not buying the goods and services they produce, well,
the reason is they’re paying the banks. So what they’ve done by insisting on tight
credit standards for the debtors, by not letting them wipe out the debt through bankruptcy,
by not reducing the student loans to the real ability to repay, they’re contributing to
the depression. And the government is–if it were running
schools like a public utility, like an electric company or a gas company, they wouldn’t let
the upper management be taking more and more money. They wouldn’t let Mr. Lew, who was
not even the president of NYU, make $1.2 million in salary, get paid $3 million when he left.
They wouldn’t let this kind of siphoning off of wealth at the top, pressing down the professors,
lowering the teaching standards, and just telling the students, we’re here not to give
you education, we’re here to give you a union card to get into the middle class, and it’s
going to cost you. And that’s what they’re selling. They’re selling the union card to
get into–. JAY: The demand that came out of the Quebec
student strike last summer, which–hundreds of thousands of people in the streets, and
it’s a demand you can see in student movements in different parts of the world, is that university,
as all education, should be a right and there should actually be no tuition. Is that what
it means when you’re saying education should be a public utility? HUDSON: Yes, and that’s how it used to be
100 years ago. For instance, in New York City, it cost more money to get your child into
kindergarten and grade school than it does to go to college in most universities throughout
the whole country. JAY: Private. Private. Private. HUDSON: Private school. America was divided
into squares all for the local education districts, and the whole American tax system, the American
geography was shaped by public education. Here is a school district. It’s going to finance
itself by local property taxes. Well, now what’s happened is there’s been a disconnect
between property taxes and education. The property owners, especially the schools that
are the largest ones, don’t have to pay property taxes. All of a sudden, instead of having
the property owners pay for education, you freed property owners in this country from
having to pay. The government is refusing to pay and is pushing all of the pressure
for education on the students. And because students haven’t yet got a job, they’re lent
the money. So somehow they’ve turned the educational
system into an adjunct of the banking system and the real estate system, just to make more
money for–a vehicle for banks to make money that is guaranteed. They’re guaranteed at
a markup. And then they say, our most profitable area of lending is student loans, and that’s
our compensation for risk. And the risk, apparently, is that they can’t give enough money to the
politicians to guarantee to pay all of the loans for the defaults that you mentioned
at the beginning of this interview. Of course there are defaults. If you graduate
and the economy’s shrinking and there are no jobs, of course you’re not going to be
able to pay. Of course you’re going to live with your parents unless your parents give
you a trust fund. And you’re not going to be able to buy new apartments. And the educational–the
student loan debt is part of the overall financial problem that’s depressing the economy right
now. JAY: Great. Thanks very much, Michael. HUDSON: Thank you. JAY: And thank you for joining us on The Real
News Network.

100 comments on “Solution to Student Debt is to Get the Banks Out of the Education Business”

  1. kvaka009 says:

    Stop this blame game of is it the banks or is it the government. The problem we clearly see is that they are two sides of the same fiat-printed paper coin that exists as debt. Something's rotten in this state of theirs, and it seems like the ideologies of the sate and of capital have got us here. Lets focus on the important question: now what?

  2. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Or you could simply not borrow what you are unable, or unwilling to repay.

  3. kd1s says:

    Well yes – I'm getting into real estate and using cash instead of borrowing. I will use collateral but that's all easy.

  4. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Did the dentist fee triple, or is that the fee for credit?

  5. rvdrvd1000 says:


  6. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Why in the world would any business loan money at no interest?

  7. rvdrvd1000 says:

    I've never read Rand, goofy.

  8. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Paying taxes is one thing, educating you, is another.

  9. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Very good, and it makes so much more sense than borrowing, then whining when the bill is due.

  10. GenghisVern says:

    I see the trolls are out early today.

  11. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Well you have pulled the "troll" card early, you must not have an argument for me.

  12. rvdrvd1000 says:

    The tax payers do.

  13. GenghisVern says:

    How's this for a better response: Perhaps you and your Austrofascist buds can quit, leave, let people discuss and consider a good idea like MMT without the Catholic Church telling them how they're heretical "statists". Your whole cult sucks, has no basis in reality or history, and plague the internet with bullshit. Go be "moral" in the corner somewhere.

  14. rvdrvd1000 says:

    I don't know what in the hell you are talking about.

  15. Max Stirner says:

    "Go be moral in the corner somewhere."

    Isn't the basis for your positions due to necessity and your morals? Same thing can be said to you, man.

  16. GenghisVern says:

    Actually yes. My point is that the modern ancap is focused on "morality" arguments, exactly as religious groups have done historically, and they are used to the same effect. The ancap sees no rights beyond property rights, and that is certainly not a superior moral position.

  17. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Or better still, "self imposed indentured servitude". The banks can't force you to take a loan, now can they?

  18. rvdrvd1000 says:

    And I sure as hell don't know what morality has to do with the subject, or which cult I am presumed to belong to. In fact your entire response is nonsensical, in so far as I can tell. Do you have a argument as to why others should be compelled to pay for educating you?

  19. rvdrvd1000 says:

    I don't benefit from paying for the education of others, at all.

  20. GenghisVern says:

    You can "opt out" of citizenship if you wish. Being born somewhere doesn't give you any magical rights to the natural world. Civilization has been around a long time, and sovereignty is established by force alone. Even "individual sovereignty" is established by force. The whole point of "democracy" is to subordinate force to reason, to protect the People and secure their rights. Title is a political construct, the initiation of force. Like any tenant, you may agree or leave.

  21. GenghisVern says:

    That's bullshit on so many levels. You know exactly what you're saying. You didn't come up with that BS rhetoric on your own in a vacuum. Go read up on Rand, Mises, Dollfuss, Austrian School, Rothbard and Rockwell. You have to study hard if you want to wear your black and yellow Liberty Pin.

  22. rvdrvd1000 says:

    I don't know what a fucking Liberty pin is either, and I don't need homework to know that you are not owed a thing in life.

  23. moestietabarnak says:

    you are a moron

  24. GenghisVern says:

    "natural rights form the basis of law"… that's religion. I believe that people have rights to life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I also believe that government should protect the People and secure their rights. Civil protection, infrastructure and social welfare are part of the Commons, like the air we breathe, and represent the PROGRESS of humanity. Ancaps would drag us back to the Dark Ages with their secular theocracy.

  25. rvdrvd1000 says:

    You have proven my point.

  26. rvdrvd1000 says:

    I have been paying for 42 years, and all I have seen is a loss to my bank account. This, apparently, to educate people that for some reason do not feel as if it is their responsibility to educate themselves, as I did.

  27. rvdrvd1000 says:

    No, I did not, and extending a lone without interest is the business of someone that knows and loves you, not the tax payers who do not. It is theft to take from one individual and to give to another, what that person has not earned.

  28. ytgv3fc7 says:

    real solution to student debt: #1 remove all laws that protect this debt from bankruptcy #2 make all education loans illegal. You'll see soon enough that education costs drop rapidly to meet what students can pay from savings. Just imagine a drop in tuition of 60% to 80%. It can happen.

  29. ytgv3fc7 says:

    Kids are being tricked, lied to about what a job will pay. By the time they've lost all the money they realize the pay is lower, moving costs are higher & that job availability is lower. The entire system is a sham – how can you know what you can afford if everyone lies about the prices?

  30. ytgv3fc7 says:

    it's the #1 warning sign that some (or all) academic field(s) are full & there's no jobs there – do not even go to school for that. If you're part way in now QUIT. Save that money & find a job that IS hiring. It's better to have a $10/hr job and no debt, or less debt, than $25/hr job and debt equal to $20/hr IF you pay it. Think about it. Many don't get this so cap'n fancy degree IF he/she gets the great job will live off credit cards then go BUST.

  31. ytgv3fc7 says:

    appear to be rich. Appearances are deceiving. Just look deeper to be sure, that's all, not pointing fingers.

  32. ytgv3fc7 says:

    higher education is NOT A RIGHT. You can't force someone to teach you things for a lower cost than they're willing to do it, not for free, etc., as it's someone else's skill. If you're that smart you can learn WITHOUT a teacher. THAT'S what you have a right to.

  33. ytgv3fc7 says:

    "why is interest"?!
    OK, I know you know better, but for the sake of others reading… a fiat fractional reserve-banking system can't operate without interest because it's a ponzi-scheme.

  34. ytgv3fc7 says:

    if it's going to be so publicly funded then it has to be restricted: if you're dumb & fail you CAN'T be passed ahead & if you're so dumb you keep failing you MUST be expelled so smarter kids can take your place. Otherwise the purpose of education fades to zero as any jackass graduates, EVERY jackass graduates & suddenly it's not a qualification for work & no employer will care BUT they'll fire/avoid you if you don't have it since anyone so dumb they CAN'T graduate in that clown-class is DUMB.

  35. ytgv3fc7 says:

    You got it. The only question is of scale in time: for example if we ensured someone was skilled & in profit manufacturing, not just operating but building factories, we could recover lost manufacturing. Short-term (less than 20 years) it may be at a loss but long-term (20-50 years) it will be a huge gain – without manufacturing, off-shoring it all, only collapse will follow.

  36. ytgv3fc7 says:

    educated in WHAT? Not everyone can be a mathematician, engineer or doctor. Some people are dumb as dirt yet seem to have little difficulty getting a psychology degree or something nonsensical in literature just because they could re-assemble regurgitated pap in a format that's "not plagiarism" except it has zero creativity. I could write an algorithm that could re-process a set of literature into a set of papers for submission, it's that uncreative. That's an "education" ? Says who?

  37. ytgv3fc7 says:

    citizenship IS NOT voluntary. It's from birth.
    Taxation IS THEFT. No consent is possible, OPTING OUT IS NOT AN OFFER.
    If it was an offer then it would be voluntary.
    And no, YOU CAN'T revoke your citizenship & leave ONCE YOU ARE TAGGED. Any false story from any cop & you've got a record & are barred for life. Jailed. Stuck. Poor.
    Many want to leave & come to MY country who are barred like this, they woke up before realizing how to get across easily & safely. America = finished

  38. ytgv3fc7 says:

    You're one of 'em

  39. ytgv3fc7 says:

    you're an idiot. Only a total idiot has their money taken by force, with no choice allowed, and doesn't figure it out eventually. For smart people it's only a question of WHEN they figure it out. For dumb people like you it's HOPELESS.

  40. ytgv3fc7 says:

    You know when I figured it out? Dirty cops. Dirty cops are protected by ALL cops. There's lots of ways to figure it out, I certainly like tax-based healthcare because it's working. FOR NOW. But cops: how can this be? This is how: I can't withhold payment so they keep getting paid to do wrong, criminal things, and if I do refuse to pay them THEIR Job is to arrest me and take EVERYTHING.
    See the fucking problem here? It's immunity FROM THE LAW as THE LAW ENFORCERS.

  41. ytgv3fc7 says:

    You are lying. No one can opt out of citizenship who is born with it. Period. Anywhere.

  42. ytgv3fc7 says:

    interest is a time-based concept of usury designed to fit with a fiat fractional-reserve currency.
    IF there was no fractional reserve & no fiat central currency and I could lend money & felt I needed a risk premium for going without, I would be able to total it up-front with NO time-premium added "per year" (or whatever), not to mention I could ask for COLLATERAL up front. Then we're all OK with no "interest". We agree then we're done.
    e.g. you repay $1200 for each $1000 borrowed, no time limit

  43. ytgv3fc7 says:

    everything he wrote is accurate so far, how does that make rvdrvd1000 a moron?

  44. ytgv3fc7 says:

    please explain / list the benefits

  45. ytgv3fc7 says:

    depends – if you have to steal it you'll have a fight on your hands, a fight with rifles & deaths. Lots of them.

  46. ytgv3fc7 says:

    I've never had more than 5,000 in debt my entire life. To me 50,000 in debt is insanity x infinity. What nonsense you speak.

  47. ytgv3fc7 says:

    actually once you break off completely from the banking system AND understand how the taxing system works you DO NOT have to pay for bailouts, you're immune. The key is to carry cash, gold, silver, weapons, be polite & discreet about it face-to-face (mostly not mentioned) & ensure you keep getting tax-free gains and/or tax refunds matching what's taken. There's always multiple equilibria meeting this goal.
    I never paid into a bailout & won't in the future.

  48. ytgv3fc7 says:

    hm, inflation – should have held silver as money. One silver dime is worth $2.45 or so right now.

  49. ytgv3fc7 says:

    no you don't. Most people who are "in debt to be in the middle class" are actually not in the middle class, they're just pretending until the bank forecloses. These people have no idea how to earn a real living, they only know how to pretend. Those who are truly middle class have no debt & actually own all the things they have, and have enough to look better than the poor, have stocks of food, fuel, gas, money, having no debts. The RICH literally just have a bigger house or 3, more cars, cash.

  50. ytgv3fc7 says:

    $50,000 in cash doesn't look as big as $50,000 in debt 😀

  51. moestietabarnak says:

    so you don't benefit from having more people educated around you ?

    guess what, you're a moron too.

  52. sirellyn says:

    No he's correct. If everyone got a PhD in philosophy but no one could farm or do any other handywork you'd have highly educated people that would be of little use.

    Education for education sake is useless. Educating to gain proficiency in a currently required need is not.

    How is your life made better from someone who took 4 years in liberal arts but now works as a delivery driver?

  53. sirellyn says:

    The word Education is also subjective. The Chinese were notorious for re-education camps. Where only propaganda was taught.

    The field of psychology is incredibly disappointing with truckloads of kids with bachelors degrees that are no better at communicating with other human beings than they were before. (Although they get pretty good at labeling them.)

    Its not that ppl shouldn't seek & learn and better themselves, they should simply do so productively.

  54. Max Stirner says:

    Well, I can't argue against that because I disagree with their notion of property rights and all of their other bullshit.

    Well same things can be said for humanistic groups going around moralizing and shit. The basis to their political views typically come from their moral positions. It's like with any other group of people. My morals are better than yours you should follow or get out.

  55. Max Stirner says:

    What are you going to do about it? Sing a song of praise and tell everyone you have some morals they haven't seen before so they must follow you in order to prevent force.

    Force is necessary. Force is how we live, it's how we survive and it's how people work. Your brand of hippy bullshit doesn't work in the real world, buddy.

  56. ytgv3fc7 says:

    No, I never have. Why would you expect it, just because you're told it? No, I never do.
    Looks like you're the moron.
    If anything I benefit from people around me NOT being bright or educated: it means I have less competition to get what I want, usually using methods people around me are so dumb they can't even comprehend the mechanics of the situation. That helps me plenty.

  57. GenghisVern says:

    Correct. But this is an old, old argument, going back to the Roman Republic and even to the days of Plato. The progress of humanity, out of serfdom, has been slow and bloody, and it is up against these religious zealots who don't believe in citizen rights, who believe in allodial title to land and the privilege of aristocracy, the People be damned. This is why, historically, liberty and democracy have been essential to each other, a mutual struggle against monarchy and plutocracy.

  58. GenghisVern says:

    Wow, the trolls are out in force on this video! Vote people down, shout them down, this heresy must be stopped and the True Faith must prevail! Ancaps of the world unite! lol

  59. rvdrvd1000 says:

    Kids? Children were lied to about Santa Claus, I am discussing the affairs of adults.

  60. GenghisVern says:

    It is a "belief". By "secular theocracy", I mean religion without a deity. Traditionally, conservatism is based in religious control, which modern right-wing Propertarian ideology offers only without the God concept to back it up. Your rights are beliefs, claims, that are irrelevant unless they are secured… by force. This is the case of property rights and citizen rights as well. I happen to believe in rights to life and liberty, as do most. I also believe in rights to vote, education…

  61. GenghisVern says:

    First, Ancap is rooted to conservative ideology. You may try to redefine language, but I will keep it thank you. If you don't see mysticism as religion, then again, I'll keep proper definitions and leave you to your fantasy. Your "belief" that coercion is "immoral" is just that, a belief. Praxeology itself is wholly unscientific by its own admission, being based on certain "truths" which cannot be questioned. Your land title exists by force alone, not your magical claims.

  62. GenghisVern says:

    There is a direct, historical link of your ancap ideology to conservatism, going back to Mises and Austrofascism of the 1920s, and prior to that to the Congress of Vienna. You may claim that your ideology sprang from a burning bush, but it is rooted 100% to what Rothbard himself called "right-wing populism". Therefore you either lie, or you are ignorant. Your "defensive force" IS the State. You would coerce people off your land, and to pay debts in labor, all based on your own Judgements

  63. Max Stirner says:

    Like democracy is any better. You're at the whim of the majority. I am apolitical because I don't see any political ideology working long run. Especially in a large capacity in which we're running it today. It becomes over ran with corruption.

    I don't trust the word liberty and freedom nor do I trust the idea of democracy or monarchy and plutocracy. I think it's all bullshit. It's an illusion of choice to keep people complacent and the powerful due as they see fit. cont…

  64. Max Stirner says:

    Cont. But I do think that anarchy (especially anarcho-capitalism) can't ever be achieved. No matter the moral and philosophical position everything always reverts back to the good old "might makes right" deal. It's why I've come to accept democracy (even though I fundamentally disagree with it) and I just roll with the punches. I don't, however, participate in the political process.

    Land does not = freedom.

  65. GenghisVern says:

    "It's an illusion of choice to keep people complacent and the powerful due as they see fit".

    Precisely why I believe it is necessary to boil down some good, solid principles that can guide real people to action, and in this pursuit I believe that a centralist position is important. The people don't want a "revolution". They don't want a "collapse". People must feel secure when they organize, especially in politics, and that requires basic principles. Liberty and democracy are good ones.

  66. Max Stirner says:

    Correction the powerful don't want a revolution. The people are just fine being "safe" that revolution just seems silly to them. You should read a great blog called "Your politics are boring as fuck" by Nadia C.

    I am pessimistic of that idea because that's assuming just because you put down solid principles that people will follow. That the majority will pay attention and the people would care.

  67. Max Stirner says:

    Cont.. And why would you want people to care? It leads the door open for people to but in on everyone's lives and how is that liberty? How is that freedom? Policing your neighbors and shit.

    But I see what you mean. I think democracy is a great start only because it's the lesser of evils and liberty is so abstract that I don't know if I think it is a good start or should even be considered in the same field as democracy.

  68. GenghisVern says:

    I appreciate that position. I'm just very interested in peaceful change, and that means appealing to common civility. People have courage, and people will protest. But to achieve What is the question. Poor Egypt revolted, not as religious zealots but as tolerant citizens, yet it took 2 years to re-corrupt the country through the election process. Perhaps some progress was made toward human rights, but I suspect the worse. How can people demand change in America if they can't there?

  69. GenghisVern says:

    I intend to present change as directly beneficial to the people who support it. It's the only way to rally the people. I intend to present ideas like single-payer medical insurance as "good for business", a "better deal" than what our country is being given now, or being taken by the conservatives. How we provide civil protection, infrastructure and social welfare is the problem we face, how to make better government rather than eliminate it as in Egypt.

  70. RealistAstrology says:

    The only problem is that only the rich or those with savings will have access to better schools regardless of intellectual ability relative to others previously able to compete because they had access to loans if they were sought after intellectually. It would also narrow the culture of higher education even further. So while I initially liked your idea, about ten seconds later I realized there could be a range of unintended (or intended) consequences that would diminish society as a whole.

  71. Max Stirner says:

    Change in government requires change in people, Vern. I just don't think people can change nor do I think the system you want could be sustained and maintained on such a large scale with so many people. Maybe it could work, theoretically, on a scale of 10 million people but 315 million people (approximately) it just doesn't seem like it would work. You see the problems we have now? People are way to different in beliefs.

  72. Max Stirner says:

    Cont. "I intend to present ideas like single-payer medical insurance as "good for business""

    That would be interesting to see. I always thought the prospect of having the employees give people health insurance was a bit odd and thought if we were going to have a government that it would be sensible to think and believe the government would provide that service to the people rather than individuals and or companies.

  73. rvdrvd1000 says:

    I am willing to bet without looking at the statistics, that at least half of the population of working people in this country are 50k in debt.

  74. Charles Smyth says:

    You can afford to pay if your parent is the president of NYU 🙂 The answer is for students, and parents who put away college funds, to wise up and stop worrying about college. Suddenly, the price drops. In addition, vote for Congressmen and women and Senators who run a ticket to repeal the bankruptcy law.

  75. ytgv3fc7 says:

    Ya I'm sorry about that, too often the banksters hit us before we can find the advice in time. I actually started stock-market study not for prices but to find out where jobs were moving (in high school) before entering university. It's been a long damn journey & while I did figure out some of the fraud then I didn't figure out about gold investing or I'd have done that with NO university tuition payment. Would have been a much better use.
    Anyhow, check out wearechange

  76. ytgv3fc7 says:

    and check out salon . com and fukushima diaries. There's still a place in the world for real journalism & often well-paid corporate shilling isn't it. Though, if you do want to make money, if you can look good for a camera & speak only nice things about S&P500 companies and Goldman Sachs, there's money there too & you never EVER need to know the facts or be honest (helps if you have pride in having no soul, though, pretty sure that's a resume requirement)

  77. Guadalupe Isadro says:

    Finally something we can agree on RN. Our government and the Fed handing out all this easy money, easy credit (everybody can go to college) has skyrocketed the price of college…hey that sounds like housing, and medical care as well.

  78. Guadalupe Isadro says:

    God you gotta love the douche bags who say 'but without the Fed we couldn't get loans to buy a home/college/car'. No douche bags…without the Fed all this easy money, easy credit (everybody can own a home) mentality the price of housing would be MUCH lower, which means many of us wouldn't need to take out a loan to begin with you FN dummies.

    Welcome to debt slavery you MORONS!!!

  79. ytgv3fc7 says:

    Do about it? I deal with my own problems & make my own solutions. My problems are solved: no debts, little cash in bank, stored gold,silver,medicine&food. That's how ya do it.
    I'm also quite well armed.
    How this all translates in your mind to "hippie" I truly can't fuckin figure it.
    OTHERS will try force but MY GOODS WON'T BE THERE FOR THE TAKING and my ass won't be hangin' in the wind. I move faster than the enemy does. Try reading again & see if you can understand 2nd time around.

  80. ytgv3fc7 says:

    for those who are leaving "money in the bank" what they're actually doing is real hard work for un-real credits with no intrinsic value, decaying temporary trade value & no value if accounts are frozen. Vern, however, is all about some MMT nonsense which begs us to have financial slave-owners be "nicer slave-owners". Seriously.

  81. ytgv3fc7 says:

    kids ARE the affairs of adults: every time we teach children that trusting rapists is good, they become adults who have been raped. That's what this college+bank debt-scam is about. Teaching kids, who are now adults, that rape is good only to discover they are very hateful & damaged as a result. The only solution is we start TODAY to teach kids that financial (& sexual) rape are wrong, since today the teaching in school is rape is good & you should love it. Do this now or kill tomorrow.

  82. ytgv3fc7 says:

    THAT, young fool, is the true discussion of adults. I am the real adult here, you are the child who has not learned anything but to declare your rape to be wonderful.

  83. ytgv3fc7 says:

    rich? This is EVERY person's suffering from an unaccountable fraud. ANY STUDENT can get savings FASTER than they can repay debt. Always. Savings doesn't have a penalty, debt does, and that penalty keeps growing. You can't get savings or repayment for free. A person who can't save can't pay debt either. Your argument, for this reason, has no logic. It isn't real.

  84. ytgv3fc7 says:

    Rather than diminishing society an initial wave of people who can't afford to go to school today & don't, will build their own businesses from savings, intentional or not, based on their own instincts & skills to date, then at some point prices will drop enough WITH re-shuffling of job markets so all education will be cheaper & some programs which clearly offer nothing for the work force WON'T be paid for at all, any price, by those who WORKED first. They'll see the truth clearly.

  85. ytgv3fc7 says:

    That's a monster debt that in my school days wasn't even possible without med school or law school. I'm not that old either. Tells you what inflation & reckless borrowing have done in combination with reckless lies about the "workplace value of education" over-selling an "education"

  86. rvdrvd1000 says:

    You must be kidding, are you saying that entering into a contract voluntarily is akin to rape? The people in college should be adults and qualified to sign a contract, shouldn't they?

  87. KAngeliii says:

    Cheap is relative. For an American, 10,000 USD a year may be cheap, but for someone else in a poor country with low wages it could mean a lifetime of savings. Either way, I suppose prices will continue to rise in 3rd world countries as people try to get cheaper things from there and push the prices with demand and matching cash to pay.

  88. RealistAstrology says:

    Well I think the point is that no one can have savings at 18 years old without having given up our culture's idea of childhood and adolescence. By your logic young people have to earn unskilled wages for a few years before beginning studies in interests in which they might have an active passion. It was a little harsh to dismiss my comments as having no logic. You didn't need to say that, you only needed to make your point. This is why discussions fall apart so easily.

  89. RealistAstrology says:

    This was mostly a good answer. I understand the point you are trying to make, but it seems like a bit of a social tough-love apprenticeship. Can people without having gotten formal training do things at a level that can generate a living wage? Should they have to? I prefer a social commitment to education that does not involve the market place, although educational resources should be awarded based on aptitude and a realistic projected need for people in a given field.

  90. sirellyn says:

    Those at age 18 could afford education in most fields. You are making the assumption that 100% of spending in education is 100% efficient. I argue for most its 5% efficient if that. Meaning the cost for most could come down 95%.

    Is what you pay for liberal arts give you more valuable skills than an knowledgeable friend or family member?

    Why do MBAs have a harder time with startups than those with "street smarts"?

    Fees are high only b/c they are constantly paid for with easy loans.

  91. ytgv3fc7 says:

    the culture of "adolescence" – perfect to train slaves. Be a consumer, be useless for being self-supporting and beg your parents to go into debt for a Wii, x-box or a car.
    People absolutely MUST have skilled and unskilled work experience before paying for school and SHOULD NEVER borrow money to do it. Ever. Period. It's a sham.
    This diminishes fraud & inflation yet boosts savings & education (real-world & in-school) without poverty

  92. ytgv3fc7 says:

    indeed. Somehow every business that's doing well from a previous owner who built it gets fucked if it's run by some moron with an MBA. They know nothing.

  93. ytgv3fc7 says:

    "social tough love" ?
    The world is a tough place, can anyone deny this? Things change fast, so fast that if you leave the work force you can't see it changing because you're not there, can anyone deny this? School isn't taking place in the work-force so this presents a problem, doesn't it? Employers need to provide GOOD training & educators need to ensure people WHO ARE SMART get educated to FACE that training.
    The only purpose for an education is the market-place – nothing else.

  94. ytgv3fc7 says:

    Tell you what, if someone wants to offer educational courses not for any job, any market-place, they should all be called out for having it (or advertise as such) as useless for work, courses for "curiosity only" and should not be part of any degree program of any sort, nor should they cost as much. If I want to take poetry courses I should pay 10% of the same cost for learning C++ and AHDL for FPGA's for what now should be obvious reasons.

  95. ytgv3fc7 says:

    I would further argue that education loans should be barred from being used or granted for any courses that clearly have no place in any market-place or work-place. In most cases that would include poetry & philosophy, by the way, though if you can prove a job's waiting just for you just with that, by all means try.

  96. RealistAstrology says:

    Well it's sad that all education must result in profit for capitalists or else it is worthless, in your eyes. The reason our culture has become so ignorant is because of a lack of depth and breadth in the liberal arts. You folks are the slaves, because you still think you need to work for capitalists to deserve being on the planet, and that nothing that can't be sold for a price is worth anything. Glad I'll be dead soon; I hope you folks enjoy your lives in your neo-fiefdoms.

  97. sirellyn says:

    This is about resource management and priorities. Most who travel note that they must first take care of basic needs. Food, water, shelter. Then they can enjoy everything else about the trip.

    You're stating that (any) education is so important, it outranks basic needs. So a vast expenditure to learn X is more important than ensuring it's result fulfills basic needs.

    It's pretty easy for banks to take people to the cleaners with those priorities.

  98. Sang3ETA says:

    The solution to student debt, for current students is to allow bankruptcy after say 5 years of finding no job. I'd also like to see the student loans guaranteed by the University, so there is some "skin in the game". Universities and courses that fail to produce student that are employable will share the pain and not offer worthless degrees.

  99. Sang3ETA says:

    The solution to student debt, for current students is to allow bankruptcy after say 5 years of finding no job. I'd also like to see the student loans guaranteed by the University, so there is some "s,kin in the game". Universities and courses that fail to produce students that are employable will share the pain and not offer worthless degrees.

  100. 916david says:

    The solution to student debt is to STOP HANDING OUT RIDICULOUS LOANS!! Let the demand drop and let the schools lower their prices. The schools know the students will default in 2020, and they're trying to cover the difference now with higher tuition. Drop the demand, drop the risk, and watch the prices fall along with them. People will have to work through school, and go to schools they can afford.

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